Who can stop... Dr. Flobo!? (read stips)

Originally posted by h1a8
But you said an hour prep is an hour in the perception of Flobo (even if it's a nanosecond). So how many clones can be produced in a nanosecond?

I'm just saying that an hour of prep is an hour of prep. So IF Dr. Flobo chose to speed-up his perceptions and whatnot in order to complete an hour's-worth of work in a nanosecond, I suppose he technically could... OR(more logically if he's growing a clone army) he'd just take the standard hour.

Only point being: Flobo doesn't get to milk eons out of his prep phase. 1 hour means 1 hour. 👆

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I still think my amalgam would.

Even with his prep, from Limbo I can use scrying pools to look back in time to when he was a poor single Flobo.

I would still have a speed advantage, with Zoom and with Limbo's time passing at a different rate.

I open a stepping disc inside his brain, and shove the Soulsword through.

So match starts, with Zoom's speed I shrink into the size of a theoretical particle (Atom alone is fast enough to shrink as an explosion is happening, Magik alone was faster than Spectrum i.e. light) now he has Zoom's speed. At that size, magic doesn't work on me, and nothing Flobo has can touch me. At the same time I used a stepping Disc to go to Limbo where the rules of physics obey my will. From there I can attack at my leisure.

My only question is how well Zoom's speed would actually hold up against a prepped Dr. Flobo? Because in the OG material iirc, Wally, with the [residual] speed of Jay + Bart + Jesse(ie. only 3 far lesser speedsters) = Zoom... And in this thread, Dr. Flobo would be able to speed-steal from... Dozens? Hundreds? Thousands? Millions? Billions? of Wally-level speedsters. So I can't imagine why/how he wouldn't come out of the prep phase [exponentially] faster than Zoom..? And if that is the case, then I could also have a few legions of my Flobo-clones absorb the speed of like 4 other clones a piece, just to ensure that they start off faster than Zoom as well.

Also, I know Wally tried to absorb Zoom's kinetic energy when they initially met, but was unsuccessful due to Zoom's time-bubble haxx or w/e. That said, shouldn't Wally have logically been able to preform KE-drainage once he was amped up to Zoom's "locked between the ticks of a second" level? I know he didn't really *need* to in that scenario, but in an unrestricted setting why *couldn't* he have, iyo?

Originally posted by Galan007
You misunderstand.

I'm just saying that an hour of prep is an hour of prep. So IF Dr. Flobo chose to speed-up his perceptions and whatnot in order to complete an hour's-worth of work in a nanosecond, I suppose he technically could... OR(more logically if he's growing a clone army) he'd just take the standard hour.

Only point being: Flobo doesn't get to milk eons out of his prep phase. 1 hour means 1 hour. 👆

Definitely has a good shot. 👆

My only question is how well Zoom's speed would actually hold up against a prepped Dr. Flobo? Because in the OG material iirc, Wally, with the [residual] speed of Jay + Bart + Jesse(ie. only 3 far lesser speedsters) = Zoom... And in this thread, Dr. Flobo would be able to speed-steal from... Dozens? Hundreds? Thousands? Millions? Billions? of Wally-level speedsters. So I can't imagine why/how he wouldn't come out of the prep phase [exponentially] faster than Zoom..? And if that is the case, then I could also have a few legions of my Flobo-clones absorb the speed of like 4 other clones a piece, just to ensure that they start off faster than Zoom as well.

Also, I know Wally tried to absorb Zoom's kinetic energy when they initially met, but was unsuccessful due to Zoom's time-bubble haxx or w/e. That said, shouldn't Wally have logically been able to preform KE-drainage once he was amped up to Zoom's "locked between the ticks of a second" level? I know he didn't really *need* to in that scenario, but in an unrestricted setting why *couldn't* he have, iyo?

With Atom's shrinking, he's never shown to have it take a noticeable amount of time (though the art shows it because...comics). Magik is already FTL, being that she does so at thought level speeds (unless....??). Zoom is just there for added oomph if needed.

As for speedstealing Zoom, the way I always read it was that it was just a no limits thing - no matter how many Wally's one stacks, they'll never be able to take Zoom's speed because he has none to take. Even when Wally is 'on his level', Zoom is still in a completely different timeline.
Edit: bearing in mind, my strat was before I made the genius move of Flobo speedstealing himself lol.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
With Atom's shrinking, he's never shown to have it take a noticeable amount of time (though the art shows it because...comics). Magik is already FTL, being that she does so at thought level speeds (unless....??). Zoom is just there for added oomph if needed.

But if Wally + the speed of 3 lesser speedsters = Zoom, then Dr. Flobo + the speed of 'just' 3-4 Wallys(nevermind millions or w/e) should already be > Zoom... Is all I'm saying. The strat you came up with for Dr. Flobo is throwing the biggest wrench in the gears of your own amalgam, lol.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
As for speedstealing Zoom, the way I always read it was that it was just a no limits thing - no matter how many Wally's one stacks, they'll never be able to take Zoom's speed because he has none to take. Even when Wally is 'on his level', Zoom is still in a completely different timeline.

Regardless, I'd probably still just have some clones attempt to drain your amalgam's KE anyway for the lulz. Why? Because if it can be punched, it can be drained imo! Also because...

My problem was that this clone army of Flash is precisely what I usually argue, and imo is a complete strategy that is unbeatable lol.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
My problem was that this clone army of Flash is precisely what I usually argue, and imo is a complete strategy that is unbeatable lol.

Have you thought of any options that could beat Dr Flobo Galan?

If we allow for Fantomex's powers being 'always on', then he would be a good bet, to swap out for the Atom. Whilst Flobo and his clones *think* they are winning (as they should be, with such stacked odds in their favor) that would give me the chance to slip away into Limbo.

The Magic Zoomex.

Match starts, and no matter how fast Flobo is, he gets caught up in an illusion. I escape to Limbo, then:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/scale_super/11137/111378174/9325604-1173940781-RCO01.jpg

Time travel, like she did here with Dr Strange, going to a time before he was an Avenger or had even heard of Magik. Or like here, when she teleported an entire plane into the future:
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11137/111378174/9350940-3331257139-GetAttachmentThumbnail.jpg

After that, Soulsword through Flobo Prime before he gets the clones. This would be done via stepping disc in his head, so no warning for him. Even if he tries to go intangible:

Originally posted by Infinaut616
Thank GOD I'm not the only one who thinks this. I've been racking my brain trying to think of alternatives that haven't already been mentioned. 😂

Have you thought of any options that could beat Dr Flobo Galan?

With a single unprepped Dr. Flobo I get:
-Superman-level physicality.
-True immortality and one of the best HFs in comics.
-The ability to move on an attosecond-by-attosecond basis(at base), coupled with all the other haxx that comes with being a master of the Speed Force.
-The ability to produce an equally powerful clone for every drop of blood spilled during the battle itself.
-Nigh-immunity to TP, coupled with the indomitable willpower of Doom+Lobo.
-High-level magical and technological protection/conjuring(at superspeed.)
-The ability to calc an infinity of scenarios nigh-instantly, coupled with one of the greatest strategic minds in comics.
-The ability to look at an opponent and immediately know their weaknesses(this would be particularly helpful during the analyzation phase, lol.)
-Etc.

...Which is already hard enough to beat as it is, but still do'able if you get creative enough.

But with prep I also get:
-The ability to produce a gargantuan army of clones, in a very short period of time.
-The ability to absorb the speed of(or lend speed to) said clones.
-Nearly unlimited magical and scientific resources to pull from, if Flobo needs to esoterically prep for additional scenarios.

...Which is obviously an intentional game-changer.

After seeing some of the responses in this thread, though, the best counter I have come up with so far is Flash (Barry) + Leech + Fate (Jared Stevens)... "Fleech".

-Barry's speed at least puts Fleech on par with base Flobo, plus I get his Speed Force haxx as well, so I *might* have a shot at speed-stealing from Flobo and his clones... An "Uno-Reverse", if you will... However, I'd still be fighting against Wally's own mastery of the Speed Force + the collective willpower of Doom and Lobo, so... Good luck?
-Leech is there to passively shut down Flobo's power entirely, if he comes within my vicinity. This nullifies his ability to blitz or do anything to me at close range, so he'll have to rely on using magic from a distance.
-That's where Fate comes into play. He has complete passive immunity to magic, so Flobo's Doom-level spells aren't affecting him at all(no matter how many are coming his way.) He also has the raw magical power and equipment to bypass any magical protection offered by Doom's armor, and kill him(at close range, due to Leech's null-field.)

Of course, Fleech isn't nearly as well-rounded as Dr. Flobo, and leaves much to be desired overall, but like others have said: it doesn't need to be the most powerful amalgam ever -- it just needs to beat Dr. Flobo specifically.

But obviously if Dr. Flobo comes into the battle with his speed amped to levels far beyond those of even Zoom, that all changes. Fleech can't do anything if he's a statue -- Flobo could literally just waltz up and decapitate him with his own dagger before he even knew the battle had started.

Originally posted by ODG
Sonovab1tch. Innocent souls can go to Hell but if Hell refuses to accept a soul? I am unaware of any instances in Marvel/DC where a merged soul that is partially damned, partially refused, could still be subject to Hell...

... after all, Constantine conned Hell into refusing his completely damned soul in Dead in America.

Guess that immunizes Dr. Flobo from damnation towards Hell. 👆

But just giving Doom the equivalent of like a thousand years of thinking every second is already pretty out of hand for most people to deal with, let alone adding all the broken Lobo nonsense.

Originally posted by Galan007
You misunderstand.

I'm just saying that an hour of prep is an hour of prep. So IF Dr. Flobo chose to speed-up his perceptions and whatnot in order to complete an hour's-worth of work in a nanosecond, I suppose he technically could... OR(more logically if he's growing a clone army) he'd just take the standard hour.

Only point being: Flobo doesn't get to milk eons out of his prep phase. 1 hour means 1 hour. 👆

So, he operates at normal human speed and cognition during that hour since any accelerated thinking or actions would make him perceive the hour as much longer (essentially completing an hour of prep in a nanosecond).

If that's correct, can you estimate how many clones he could create in that nanosecond or in that hour if he's to operate at human speed and cognition?

You're overcomplicating this, I think?

An hour is an hour. So if Dr. Flobo opts to use his prep phase, then he has one(1) hour to grow a clone army.

I don't know the exact number of clones Dr. Flobo could produce in that time, but it's a lot. Lobo himself can fully regenerate from the blood-level within a few seconds, and here his HF would be further boosted by the Speed Force(so even faster than Lobo's natural HF alone)... Plus Dr. Flobo is getting an entire clone for each and every drop of blood he spills.

As mentioned previously: even "billions" of clones seems to be a laughably conservative estimate, if you go wild with this strat. /shrug

adding leech and fate is smart af.

if dr. flobo gets close to you, bam, no more powers. doesn't matter how many dr. flobos he's facing either. any kind of closeup attacks would basically just be getting thrown by a powerless and easily avoidable human. millions of imps coming at you would be stopped dead in their tracks, and even if dr. flobo was way faster then this amalgam it doesn't matter because their negation powers are always on and do not require thought to activate. kinetic energy draining or other SF mumbojumbo is also unlikely because of barry. then you have fate's blanket immunity to magic, which negs the other key part of flobo's powers.

i can get behind that and darksaint's amalgam.👆

Carver inadvertently stumbled onto it with Aquarian, but he needed to show magic immunity. Even when I drafted Aquarian, I stacked Fate on top for magic immunity, as I recognised that Aquarian had no real showings against magic.

The advantage of Wundarr is that unlike Leech, he also has the ability to shoot energy blasts, fly, and has Class 5 strength.

Galan, how big is the battle field?

Originally posted by Galan007
You're overcomplicating this, I think?

An hour is an hour. So if Dr. Flobo opts to use his prep phase, then he has one(1) hour to grow a clone army.

I don't know the exact number of clones Dr. Flobo could produce in that time, but it's a lot. Lobo himself can fully regenerate from the blood-level within a few seconds, and here his HF would be further boosted by the Speed Force(so even faster than Lobo's natural HF alone)... Plus Dr. Flobo is getting an entire clone for each and every drop of blood he spills.

As mentioned previously: even "billions" of clones seems to be a laughably conservative estimate, if you go wild with this strat. /shrug

I'm not overcomplicating things. He either gets a literal hour on a standard clock or he doesn't. You stated that he doesn't get a literal clock hour because, to him, a nanosecond would feel like an hour. That means he actually gets only a nanosecond of real-time prep, which is where the confusion arises.

In that nanosecond of prep, he would function as a normal human would in an actual hour, since the nanosecond is equivalent to an hour from his perspective. However, in that nanosecond - or the amount of time that feels like an hour - he cannot create a billion clones, not even close.

By my rough estimate, he could produce between 720 and 1200 clones, assuming it takes about 3 - 5 seconds to draw a drop of blood and for it to develop into a clone.

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
adding leech and fate is smart af.

if dr. flobo gets close to you, bam, no more powers. doesn't matter how many dr. flobos he's facing either. any kind of closeup attacks would basically just be getting thrown by a powerless and easily avoidable human. millions of imps coming at you would be stopped dead in their tracks, and even if dr. flobo was way faster then this amalgam it doesn't matter because their negation powers are always on and do not require thought to activate. kinetic energy draining or other SF mumbojumbo is also unlikely because of barry. then you have fate's blanket immunity to magic, which negs the other key part of flobo's powers.

i can get behind that and darksaint's amalgam.👆

The problem, however, is that Dr. Flobo's speed could potentially be amped to such levels that even guys like Zoom(and certainly Barry) would be literal statues... In which case all Flobo has to do is casually stroll over and stuff a screwdriver in Fleech's head, ftw(you don't even need superpowers to do that.)

The theoretical brokenness of Dr. Flobo cannot be overstated. 👆

Originally posted by carver9
Galan, how big is the battle field?

...Except boundless.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Carver inadvertently stumbled onto it with Aquarian, but he needed to show magic immunity. Even when I drafted Aquarian, I stacked Fate on top for magic immunity, as I recognised that Aquarian had no real showings against magic.

The advantage of Wundarr is that unlike Leech, he also has the ability to shoot energy blasts, fly, and has Class 5 strength.

At least with Leech you know what you're getting: a little green freak who passively emits an omni-directional field around himself that nullifies ALL powers within it. Visually speaking, I picture Fleech's invisible null-field as something similar to a more localized Gungan Shield Generator:

...Except the powers of anyone inside the 'bubble' are instantly nullified. It's shutting down speed, healing, cloning, physical stats, energy attacks, enhanced awareness, etc. etc.

In which case Fleech just starts running around the field at max speed, spamming vibrational attacks with Fate's chaos arm and exploding every Flobo-clone(*which would now be powerless, remember) that enters the null-field... It would be like the train scene from Invincible inside the bubble.

Pure mayhem. 👆

This leaves Dr. Flobo with only two options, as I see it:
a.) Using ranged magic-based attacks, which are completely useless against Fleech thanks to his immunity to magic.
b.) Using some sort of tech he grabbed during the prep phase. I don't know what all Doom literally has direct access to, but if it's any sort of projectile/beam-type weaponry, Fleech should be able to dodge it.

The irony is that there are waaay more amalgam options who can beat Fleech than there are amalgams who can beat a prepped Dr. Flobo. Fleech is just tailor made to exploit Flobo's... "Openings", I guess you could say? "Weaknesses" just sounds like too harsh of a word since Dr. Flobo doesn't really have any to speak of.

**But I must reiterate: that all goes out the window if Dr. Flobo speed-steals from his clones during the prep phase. Statues don't/can't fight back. ermm

{As an aside}
If I could cram one more herald into Fleech to make this strat even more fun, it'd be Black Hand. That way I could also resurrect the Flobo-clones the same instant I kill them(now they'd be under my control), then just start absorbing their speed and/or use them as soldiers(they're free meat-shields if nothing else.) But I digress...
{/nerdery}

Originally posted by h1a8
I'm not overcomplicating things.
[...]
By my rough estimate, he could produce between 720 and 1200 clones, assuming it takes about 3 - 5 seconds to draw a drop of blood and for it to develop into a clone.

Ehh, I'm not poking myself on the finger with a thumbtack and slowly producing individual droplets of blood one-by-one for an hour. The clones(all of them) are basically slicing their own heads off and rapidly bleeding-out in large quantities until they heal. Then they're doing it again, and again, and again(at superspeed) until the prep phase is over.

So a few pints of blood on the ground = however many thousands of individual drops of blood = a corresponding number of individual Flobo clones. Etc.

But anyway, lets use these randomly low figures you came up with, for the lulz. Dr. Flobo only needs to absorb the speed of 3-4 clones to be faster than Zoom(*the* fastest unamped character on the list, by far)... So he absorbs the speed of 20 clones for good measure. That alone puts Dr. Flobo vastly beyond Zoom, and therefore beyond any amalgam you're likely to come up with.

...And he'd still have at least 700 clones left to do whatever he wants with afterward. IOW, the end result is still the same regardless: Flobo wins. 👆

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
adding leech and fate is smart af.

if dr. flobo gets close to you, bam, no more powers. doesn't matter how many dr. flobos he's facing either. any kind of closeup attacks would basically just be getting thrown by a powerless and easily avoidable human. millions of imps coming at you would be stopped dead in their tracks, and even if dr. flobo was way faster then this amalgam it doesn't matter because their negation powers are always on and do not require thought to activate. kinetic energy draining or other SF mumbojumbo is also unlikely because of barry. then you have fate's blanket immunity to magic, which negs the other key part of flobo's powers.

i can get behind that and darksaint's amalgam.👆

Originally posted by Galan007
The strat you came up with for Dr. Flobo is throwing the biggest wrench in the gears of your own amalgam, lol.

Oh and I also wanted to point out that even though Dr Flobo's natural powers would all be removed if he was inside Leech's field, his Doom armor would still be completely functional. So even without any super powers, you'd still be up against an army of Iron Men basically. Super strong, super durable, super fast.. all that. So they could still possibly dogpile Fleech to get the win that way.

What about something like:

Zoom
Animal Man
The Shade

Dr Flobo could speed up past Zoom before the match, but the Shade brings a lot of "natural" defense and immunity and intangibility, with a source of magic that Doom has never encountered before and has no meaningful ability to prep against until the fight starts.

So the gambit is that Shazoomimal could be hard enough to kill, trap or BFR, just long enough to copy an amoeba and replicate en masse.

From there it's clone army vs clone army... but one has the benefit of exponentially compounding darkforce energy. I'd wager that the Shazoomimal army will make each individual Shazoomimal that much more godlike.