Who can stop... Dr. Flobo!? (read stips)

Originally posted by Galan007
"Luckily". 👆

Lol, no.

Imagine two separate beings: Zoom and a Zoom-Barry amalgam.
• Both manipulate time, where each second for Zoom is an actual real attosecond outside his time bubble.
• Inside this bubble, Zoom moves at normal human speed because he lacks actual superspeed.
• However, within the same bubble, Barry-Zoom moves at Flash-like speed instead of human speed.

This means that what feels like an attosecond to Zoom is an entire second for Barry-Zoom. In other words, Zoom would be completely frozen, just as an ordinary human would be frozen to a Barry with only Flash powers.

Originally posted by h1a8

Physical attacks don't mean much to Shadow King.

Originally posted by Smurph
Ok back to the drawing board

What about:

Cyborg Superman
Shadow King
Rogue

"Cybrow"

Shadow King exists without a physical body, and he can also hop between hosts, forever. As well, he's shown that he can spread his control across a population like a virus. Cyborg Superman has hacked the source wall itself, and would best Doom's defences with a bit of time.

So between those two powersets, Cybrow hops and spreads between armors and clone bodies. Both give him the capacity to control legions. Now, Flobo has defenses to TP and techno attacks, but as soon as Cybrow makes contact, he also drains power + knowledge via Rogue.

And from there he can remain ethereal but use Flash's speed steal and have all the secrets of Doom's magic and armor. While he spreads across the Dr Flobo army and converts them to his side or steals their speed and power. He could also steal Lobo's powers in order to create duplicating Cyborg Kryptonians with Doom's magic and Wally's speed steal and Shadow King's immortality. The duplicates would just exponentially increase his ability to convert the Flobo army by force.

Anyway, I feel like Cybrow is very susceptible to an instantaneous KE-drain, IMPs, or any number of SF-related shenanigans, no? Imo, without at least a Flash-level speedster in the equation, Cybrow already starts off at a significant disadvantage in that he'd likely be a statue to even a base Dr. Flobo, and has no counters for SF haxx.

Then I guess it's just a matter of what happens to SK's essence if his host body is fossilized via complete drainage..? Is he locked inside as well, or does he try to body-hop before the Flobo clones speed-spam every containment spell and whatnot in Doom's arsenal?

Originally posted by Galan007
Loving some of the creativity I've seen here. 👆

Anyway, I feel like Cybrow is very susceptible to an instantaneous KE-drain, IMPs, or any number of SF-related shenanigans, no? Imo, without at least a Flash-level speedster in the equation, Cybrow already starts off at a significant disadvantage in that he'd likely be a statue to even a base Dr. Flobo, and has no counters for SF haxx.

Then I guess it's just a matter of what happens to SK's essence if his host body is fossilized via complete drainage..? Is he locked inside as well, or does he try to body-hop before the Flobo clones speed-spam every containment spell and whatnot in Doom's arsenal?

Originally posted by Smurph
Oh, I think it's a given that the initial body is forfeit. But SK doesn't require a body to attack from. And I'm not sure that Flash has ever speed stolen from an ethereal multiversal entity. Has he?

Flobo doesn't have to beat the entire multiversal manifestation of SK, though. Just the "tendril" merged with Cybrow.

I'm also curious just how resistant a Lobo+Doom combo would be against SK's type of possession..? Isn't it psi-based?

Originally posted by Galan007
Nah. The potential in-fighting would only come after the primary opponent/objective(ie. the other amalgam) has been dealt with, imo.

But what becomes of Dr. Flobo after the battle matters not. 👆

More overtly, the Speedforce Fantomexwell-Lord amalgam could also misdirect all the Dr. Flobo clones into believing the battle was already over. Because it looks like we both agree that once Dr. Flobo believes the battle to be over, their ego will demand a "prime" Dr. Flobo rise above the rest, leading all of them FFA'ing btw themselves over who is "prime" Dr. Flobo.

Originally posted by Galan007
Dr. Flobo brings the Spook-Collector Gun to the party, then:
https://ibb.co/RkCgY0Hk
https://ibb.co/ymskDypx
😈

Flobo doesn't have to beat the entire multiversal manifestation of SK, though. Just the "tendril" merged with Cybrow.

I'm also curious just how resistant a Lobo+Doom combo would be against SK's type of possession..? Isn't it psi-based?

The spook collector gun is cool but I tend to think that trying to capture the essence of Cyborg Superman would just lead to Henshaw taking over the gun itself. I'm not sure there's tech in Marvel or DC that could feasibly "contain" him.

As to your last question, SK is certainly psi based. But as soon as he was attacking them from the astral plane or whatever, I think he's made metaphysical contact... which should be enough for Rogue's powers to kick in. And psi resistance won't help with that.

And then there's Henshaw's possession, which isn't psi based but tech based, and should work against the armors.

^ Maybe I missed it from other discussions but why would any of Dr. Flobo's blood-clones have the original's armor such that Dr. Flobo's armor means anything outside of prime Dr. Flobo?

IIRC, Lobo's blood-clones don't emerge fully-clothed. They're all butt-nekkid.

No homo.

Good point 👆

I was basing it on Galvan's reference to billions of armors, but maybe he made a mistake:

Originally posted by Galan007
Original strat... I like it! 👆

My "vision" for Dr. Flobo is basically the OP pic. So yeah, Doom-esque armor(wouldn't be a Doom amalgam if it weren't included, tbh.)

As for speed-superiority: Zoom is indeed a great choice there(probably the best, actually), but when you factor in Dr. Flobo's ability to absorb the speed of millions/billions of clones during his prep phase(and if need be, share fractions of his augmented speed with specific clones at will), Zoom's "faasssterrrthaaannnyyyoouuu" status, um... Diminishes quite a bit, to say the least.

I like the hacking angle for sure. Doom's armor is also fortified with high-levels magics, though, which changes things quite a bit. I certainly wouldn't put it past Henshaw to [eventually?] hack the armor(given his Source Wall feat), but the question is if he can hack billionS of Doom-level armors before he is IMP'd into oblivion within the first attosecond of the battle..? Prolly not, imo, but I can be swayed here.

The mindrape angle is a great way to cover your bases, and against one Dr. Flobo it'd be borderline perfect. Against billionS of Flobo-minds(so Doom+Lobo), moving around at Wally(++)-speeds? Nah... Nate ain't that guy.

Yeah, my bad. 👆

Someone asked if Dr. Flobo's clones also had Doom's armor, and I answered 'yes' not really thinking/caring much about it, because the armor(while nice to have) isn't really crucial to my strat anyway... In some cases it could actually hinder more than help.

But yeah, the clones have been nakey every time Lobo has spawned them, so that would also have to be their default here -- only the OG "Flobo-Prime" would go in with armor.

That somewhat nerfs the value of Henshaw.

Revising.

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, my bad. 👆

Someone asked if Dr. Flobo's clones also had Doom's armor, and I answered 'yes' not really thinking/caring much about it, because the armor(while nice to have) isn't really crucial to my strat anyway... In some cases it could actually hinder more than help.

But yeah, the clones have been nakey every time Lobo has spawned them, so that would also have to be their default here -- only the OG "Flobo-Prime" would go in with armor.

Speedforce Fantomexwell-Lord could simply focus the misdirection powers on some/all of the blood-clones and amplify their egos into believing they actually are/ought to be the "prime" Dr. Flobo. Which is a status that could only be realistically accomplished by fighting over/donning the originally singular Dr. Flobo armor (especially if you're being influenced to think that). I mean, without the armor, you're undeniably just a mere nekkid blood-clone copy. Could any persona with the ego of Doctor Doom countenance that?

I'd argue, no.

Granted, Lobo's blood-clones appear to have no ego over being clones at least from my limited reading of Death Metal. Doctor Doom, however? Doom has created Doombots that superficially emulate his own ego and have ironically/inevitably turned on themselves. I respectfully submit that true Doom blood-clones would naturally be more vainly self-destructive. Enough so, at least, to present a natural exploit which could be amply capitalized by someone with the unparalleled misdirection powers of a Speedforce Fantomexwell-Lord.

Originally posted by Smurph
You misunderstand.

Physical attacks don't mean much to Shadow King.

I said physical AND OR magical attacks. That was a general statement to all amalgams. Shadow King isn't immune to magic.
You took the first part of the sentence and ignored the second part.

Lol
No one here is getting past the first hurdle. All the creativity in the world is useless if you start the fight completely frozen and stay that way for a long time.

Every character on the list begins vulnerable to either physical or magical forces-before their powers activate. That gives Flobo years to do whatever he wants to the statue.

Originally posted by ODG
This is why I doubled down on the misdirection abilities of Fantomex exponentially enhanced by Maxwell Lord. They could subtly influence "prime" Dr. Flobo or any/all of his blood clones into believing it's wiser to narrow the field before the non-Dr. Flobo opposition was truly eliminated in an act of self-sabotage. Because who would pose a bigger threat to Dr. Flobo than.... Dr. Flobo himself?

More overtly, the Speedforce Fantomexwell-Lord amalgam could also misdirect all the Dr. Flobo clones into believing the battle was already over. Because it looks like we both agree that once Dr. Flobo believes the battle to be over, their ego will demand a "prime" Dr. Flobo rise above the rest, leading all of them FFA'ing btw themselves over who is "prime" Dr. Flobo.

...But what the clones do to themselves after they've secured the 'w' is ultimately moot here. 👆

Originally posted by Smurph
But it's not a tendril merged with Cybrow, is it? Shadow King forms one third of the amalgam. So Cybrow includes the full entity.

The spook collector gun is cool but I tend to think that trying to capture the essence of Cyborg Superman would just lead to Henshaw taking over the gun itself. I'm not sure there's tech in Marvel or DC that could feasibly "contain" him.

As to your last question, SK is certainly psi based. But as soon as he was attacking them from the astral plane or whatever, I think he's made metaphysical contact... which should be enough for Rogue's powers to kick in. And psi resistance won't help with that.

And then there's Henshaw's possession, which isn't psi based but tech based, and should work against the armors.

In all honesty though, I don't know nearly enough about SK to to get into a serious discussion involving Cybrow. Any possible counters to your strat will have to come from someone else, unfortunately.

Only thing I would add is that the whole "ethereal" aspect of SK might not even matter to Dr. Flobo:
https://ibb.co/vCfyf302
https://ibb.co/Ngg4DPTK
https://ibb.co/spFw5h3D

...And if he can touch you, he can IMP you! 🥷

Originally posted by ODG
In which case, my Speedforce Fantomexwell-Lord's misdirection powers wouldn't necessarily even have to deal with Doom's armor defenses in the first place.

Speedforce Fantomexwell-Lord could simply focus the misdirection powers on some/all of the blood-clones and amplify their egos into believing they actually are/ought to be the "prime" Dr. Flobo. Which is a status that could only be realistically accomplished by fighting over/donning the originally singular Dr. Flobo armor (especially if you're being influenced to think that). I mean, without the armor, you're undeniably just a mere nekkid blood-clone copy. Could any persona with the ego of Doctor Doom countenance that?

I'd argue, no.

Granted, Lobo's blood-clones appear to have no ego over being clones at least from my limited reading of Death Metal. Doctor Doom, however? Doom has created Doombots that superficially emulate his own ego and have ironically/inevitably turned on themselves. I respectfully submit that true Doom blood-clones would naturally be more vainly self-destructive. Enough so, at least, to present a natural exploit which could be amply capitalized by someone with the unparalleled misdirection powers of a Speedforce Fantomexwell-Lord.

The blood clones would be frozen from the start since Prime Flobo already stole their speed, making them useless here.

Also, starting with multiple characters not listed in the OP likely violates the "no outside help" rule. Flobo can create the clones, steal their speed, and discard them before the fight begins without breaking any rules. This is Dr. Flobo vs. your amalgam, not Flobo and his clones vs. your amalgam.

Finally, no amalgam will work if they start frozen and remain vulnerable to physical or magical forces. You need an amalgam that either won't be frozen at the start or is immune to both physical and magical forces before activating their powers - no combination of the listed characters fit that 2nd criterion.

Originally posted by h1a8
The blood clones would be frozen from the start since Prime Flobo already stole their speed, making them useless here.

Dr. Flobo only needs to steal the speed of 3-4 clones, and he's already faster than Zoom. That said, even if Flobo absorbed the speed of millions of clones, I'd still have billionS of clones leftover(conservatively) to fight in the battle itself.

So yes, a vast army of fully-powered Flobo clones is very much in play here. 👆

Originally posted by h1a8
Also, starting with multiple characters not listed in the OP likely violates the "no outside help" rule. Flobo can create the clones, steal their speed, and discard them before the fight begins without breaking any rules. This is Dr. Flobo vs. your amalgam, not Flobo and his clones vs. your amalgam.

Also, it's not like Dr. Flobo is using his prep phase to travel to the 5th dimension and recruit Mxy or w/e. All the help he's getting in this battle is literally coming from himself. 👆

Originally posted by ODG
Granted, Lobo's blood-clones appear to have no ego over being clones at least from my limited reading of Death Metal.

If nothing else, it further solidifies that the clones will prioritize beating their opponent over beating themselves.

Originally posted by Galan007
Oh there would most definitely be in-fighting afterwards... But initially the Flobo clones would target/beat/kill their primary opponent first(which is all that matters here.) After that was handled, they would likely commence with the in-fighting to assert some kind of weird narcissistic alpha dominance -- Lobo himself basically said as much:
https://ibb.co/9kwkx9KH

Now I get that the point of your scan was to show that despite Lobo's self-conceit, he'd resolve himself to fight external foes before himsel(ves). But Dr. Flobo isn't simply Lobo, right? He's also Doctor Doom. There's a difference, no? Now, while I think I am fairly parsing the nuances of character-personalities, if you think I'm begging the question to distract from powersets, fine.

But if you think that, then our controversy should boil down to whether a Speedforce Fantomexwell-Lord's misdirection powers could afflict Dr. Flobo and/or his blood-clones and exploit their self-destructive vanity or not.

You insist the infighting would only happen after killing Speedforce Fantomexwell-Lord. That seems arbitrary. Indeed, an obvious misdirection scenario that could be imposed is making them think the external battle is over, leaving them to gloat/fight amongst themselves into oblivion while Speedforce Fantomexwell-Lord stands back.

Originally posted by h1a8
I said physical AND OR magical attacks. That was a general statement to all amalgams. Shadow King isn't immune to magic.
You took the first part of the sentence and ignored the second part.

If the solution is to magically attack him on the astral plane (ie Strange's magical telepathy and magical astral projection), then I think there is actually a lot of evidence that speed advantages do not translate 1:1. Or possibly at all.