Who can stop... Dr. Flobo!? (read stips)

Originally posted by Infinaut616
Agree. 👆

Looks like it threw a wrench in yours too. 😛

Frankly, had I considered DS's speed-stealing-from-clones tactic beforehand, I probably would have allowed you to include up to four heralds in your amalgam... Because with the aforementioned strat in the equation, it kind of seems like the existing amalgams might need a little extra help to have a conceivable shot at beating Dr. Flobo under these conditions.
mmm

Originally posted by Infinaut616
Oh and I also wanted to point out that even though Dr Flobo's natural powers would all be removed if he was inside Leech's field, his Doom armor would still be completely functional. So even without any super powers, you'd still be up against an army of Iron Men basically. Super strong, super durable, super fast.. all that. So they could still possibly dogpile Fleech to get the win that way.

...But they ain't doing jack to Fleech at that level. Armor or not, they'd still be relative statues inside Fleech's null-field, and he'd be blitzing them by the attosecond with vibrational attacks from his chaos arm+dagger -- he's casually one-piecing them, in other words.

Originally posted by Smurph
What about something like:

Zoom
Animal Man
The Shade

Dr Flobo could speed up past Zoom before the match, but the Shade brings a lot of "natural" defense and immunity and intangibility, with a source of magic that Doom has never encountered before and has no meaningful ability to prep against until the fight starts.

So the gambit is that Shazoomimal could be hard enough to kill, trap or BFR, just long enough to copy an amoeba and replicate en masse.

From there it's clone army vs clone army... but one has the benefit of exponentially compounding darkforce energy. I'd wager that the Shazoomimal army will make each individual Shazoomimal that much more godlike.

But I think speed is still going to be Shazoomimal's main issue, no?

If Dr. Flobo 'only' absorbs the speed of 3 clones, he already becomes just as fast as Zoom(in all likelihood even faster, given that Wally+Wally+Wally > Jay+Bart+Jesse.) 4 clones and he's definitely faster. Every bit of speed Flobo absorbs after that would only serve to fossilize Shazoomimal even moreso. Moreover, Flobo has the potential numbers to allow for a few-million more clones to amp themselves to beyond Zoom-level speeds as well, in preparation for a massive "SuperIMP"(ie. at the onset of the battle, millions of Flobo clones would use their superior speed to consecutively IMP Shazoomimal on a continuous loop until he was either incapacitated/dead or they were.) Meanwhile I have a few-dozen more clones(also amped) prepping for an instantaneous KE-drain(why not?), and if that fails they just resort to spamming Shazoomimal with piercing vibrational attacks for the lulz(why not?)... And that could potentially be just a mere micro-fraction of my collective clone army. 🙂

Also, while Doom logically wouldn't have any way to prep for Shade's magic specifically, I would assume his armor's default/residual defenses still offer *some* level of general resistance in that regard... As would his overall offensive/defensive magics being preformed at superspeed, imo. /shrug

Anyways... Battle starts, Shazoomimal is a statue relative to my hyper-amped Flobos, the SuperIMP payload is being delivered perpetually(if something like that...delivered just once...can harm Nix Uotan, it can harm pretty much anyone, no matter how exotic/esoteric/high-end their powers might be.)

tl;dr
When all else fails, just punch it in the face really hard. 👆

Yeah, with that strat, you should have Multiple Man instead.

Match starts, Flobo delivers an IMP. This creates......a billion clones, all with Zoom's speed.lf you want, you could then replace Zoom with Bart, or someone else who who could also speed steal. Maybe Jay? But replace his Galan-tier heart. Or Max Mercury, someone who understands the SF better than Wally. You get what I'm getting at - we need a SF user who is fast, and can also speed steal.

The clones all lend each other speed as well. Infinite mass = infinite energy = infinite clones.

👆

I also feel like trying to match(or exceed) a prepped/amped Dr. Flobo's potential speed is pretty much out of the question without having prep yourself -- especially when even the likes of Zoom would initially be a statue in comparison(to varying orders of magnitude.) So it's better if your amalgam's primary strategical abilities are passive, that way they can't be out-sped no matter how much faster Flobo is. That at least buys you time to actually mount a legitimate counterattack before you're instantly SuperIMP'd into oblivion.

Because if you can't become faster than Flobo, you need to at least be able to heavily dampen(or entirely negate) his key powers, imo. That's why guys like Leech and Fate are so crucial to my strat. Same with the folks in your amalgam, I'm sure... As an aside: I originally considered using Savitar as my speedster component("Feechitar"😉, due to his heightened mastery of the Speed Force being a possible counter to Flobo's own SF haxx(IOW, he might have a better shot at draining the Flobo-clones himself)... But I don't think even Savitar can contend with guys like Barry and Wally in that department anymore. /shrug

But again, even the mighty Fleech would still fall victim to an amped Dr. Flobo. With his far superior/amped speed, Flobo could literally walk over and give Fleech the Mordru treatment, before he could even process that the match had started.

...If speed-stealing/lending from his clones was off the table, however, I'd give Fleech the odds against even the gargantuan army that base Dr. Flobo brings to the table... But it is a viable strat, I'm afraid, and I'm sure everyone is super happy you pointed that one out. 😂

This was overlooked.

Originally posted by Juntai
That said, BFR is probably one of the better options, if you can keep him from coming back in a reasonable time with Wally and Doom's abilities.

Nah.

All of the characters comprising Dr. Flobo have reasonable resistance/immunity to BFR as well:
-Doom, with his magic and/or tech.
-Flash, with his SF haxx.
-Lobo, with...well...He got to and from the 5th dimension(which isn't even on the multiversal map) somehow:
https://ibb.co/275fzMLS
srug
*Come to think of it, the fact that an entire world full of 5D-Imps didn't just instantly incapacitate/kill Lobo(rather, Lobo was able to incapacitate/kill them... With an assault rifle, lol) indicates *some* type of cartoonish resistance/immunity to... Something..? But I dunno exactly what..? 😕

Anyway, if you're fishing for some kind of glaring weaknesses in Dr. Flobo, you're... Unlikely to find any. 👆

**I'd also add(because I just thought about it) that Lobo's ability to accurately track anyone/thing(even cross-dimensionally) would be rather helpful against most illusions and the like, I'd think(Flobo would always hone-in on the real deal)... Especially when said ability might also(?) get further boosted by the SF.

Originally posted by Galan007
Yes, you are. 👆

Ehh, I'm not poking myself on the finger with a thumbtack and slowly producing individual droplets of blood one-by-one for an hour. The clones(all of them) are basically slicing their own heads off and rapidly bleeding-out in large quantities until they heal. Then they're doing it again, and again, and again(at superspeed) until the prep phase is over.

So a few pints of blood on the ground = however many thousands of individual drops of blood = a corresponding number of individual Flobo clones. Etc.

But anyway, lets use these randomly low figures you came up with, for the lulz. Dr. Flobo only needs to absorb the speed of 3-4 clones to be faster than Zoom(*the* fastest unamped character on the list, by far)... So he absorbs the speed of 20 clones for good measure. That alone puts Dr. Flobo vastly beyond Zoom, and therefore beyond any amalgam you're likely to come up with.

...And he'd still have at least 700 clones left to do whatever he wants with afterward. IOW, the end result is still the same regardless: Flobo wins. 👆

Cloning at superspeed is irrelevant because Flobo completes all his cloning within a nanosecond. This is equivalent to cloning at normal human speed within an hour of real time. Each glob of blood produces only one clone, regardless of its size. To create multiple clones, the blood must be separated into multiple globs or drops. Given this, it's reasonable to assume Flobo can produce 720 to 1,200 clones within the nanosecond or the actual brief amount of real time he has for preparation.

Now, suppose he somehow manages to produce and steal the speed of a billion clones during his prep. Here's the shocker: the Zoom-Barry combination would still be astronomically faster.

Proof:
* Zoom slows down time to the point where an attosecond (1e-18 seconds) feels like a full second to him.
* Barry already perceives time at an attosecond scale.
* This means that for Zoom, a second in Barry's perception would be like an attosecond. That's an attosecond of an attosecond, or 1e-18 × 1e-18= 1e-36 seconds in real time.
* This makes them 1e18 times faster than Wally alone.

Speed stealing functions additively:
* If three people can each run at 20 mph and one steals the other's speed, they gain an additional 20mph + 20 mph, tripling (3x) their speed.
* Stealing speed from a billion identical individuals moving at 20 mph results in a total speed that is a billion and one times faster.

Comparing:
* Flobo, even after stealing from a billion clones, would be 1 billion times faster than his base.
* The Zoom-Barry combination, however, operates at a speed 1e18 times faster than Wally - which is a billion times faster than Flobo at his peak.

Thus, even with a billion clones and all their speed absorbed, Flobo would still be vastly outclassed.

^ You seriously need to read-up on Lobo, because that is definitely not how his blood-cloning works... A pool of blood is perfectly capable of spawning a clone army by itself:

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...Because a pool/puddle of blood still contains 'x' number of individual drops, which equates to a corresponding number of clones per puddle. Hence my [absolutely broken] cloning strategy for Dr. Flobo. 🙂

Also... How is Zoom+Barry > Wally+a billion Wallys again? You lost me(even more) with that one. 😕

Another possible amalgam is Zoom + Nate Grey + Barry Allen.

Nate enters the 'Planck length' between moments. It's unclear if the writer meant "Planck time", which is 1e-44 seconds. If so, this would make him more than 1e17 times faster than Flobo, even after Flobo absorbs the speed of a billion clones.

Im going Zoom, Absorbing man, and Wundaar.

Originally posted by carver9
Im going Zoom, Absorbing man, and Wundaar.

This dies when Flobo casts a spell turning them into a pile of cocaine.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ You seriously need to read-up on Lobo, because that is definitely not how his blood-cloning works... A pool of blood is perfectly capable of spawning a clone army by itself:

______________________________

...Hence my [absolutely broken] cloning strategy for Dr. Flobo. 🙂

Also... How is Zoom+Barry > Wally+a billion Wallys again? You lost me(even more) with that one. 😕

Zoom doesn't have any superspeed. He just slows down time relative to his own personal reference time frame while moving at normal human speed within that altered reference frame. Now, imagine if instead of moving at human speed within that altered time frame, he moved at Barry's speed. That's like experiencing an attosecond within an actual attosecond as a normal second, or 1e-36 of a second as a normal second.

By comparison, a billion times faster Wally would have 1e-18/1e9 = 1e-27 of a second perceptions. In other words, he would perceive 1e-27 of a second as a normal second.

Since 1e-36 is a billion times faster than 1e-27, Zoom moving at Barry's speed in his altered time frame would be exponentially beyond a being that is a billion times faster than Wally could achieve.

Any amalgam that isn't as fast or faster than Flobo will be frozen for an extremely long time the moment the fight begins.

This means all the creative and fantastic strategies your amalgam might have become useless. And since the amalgam has no prep time, they must start the fight completely vulnerable to physical and or magical attacks with no active defenses.

People often fail to realize that having an exponential speed advantage is essentially the same as stopping time - there is practically no difference.

Ok back to the drawing board

What about:

Cyborg Superman
Shadow King
Rogue

"Cybrow"

Shadow King exists without a physical body, and he can also hop between hosts, forever. As well, he's shown that he can spread his control across a population like a virus. Cyborg Superman has hacked the source wall itself, and would best Doom's defences with a bit of time.

So between those two powersets, Cybrow hops and spreads between armors and clone bodies. Both give him the capacity to control legions. Now, Flobo has defenses to TP and techno attacks, but as soon as Cybrow makes contact, he also drains power + knowledge via Rogue.

And from there he can remain ethereal but use Flash's speed steal and have all the secrets of Doom's magic and armor. While he spreads across the Dr Flobo army and converts them to his side or steals their speed and power. He could also steal Lobo's powers in order to create duplicating Cyborg Kryptonians with Doom's magic and Wally's speed steal and Shadow King's immortality. The duplicates would just exponentially increase his ability to convert the Flobo army by force.

Originally posted by h1a8
Zoom doesn't have any superspeed. He just slows down time relative to his own personal reference time frame while moving at normal human speed within that altered reference frame. Now, imagine if instead of moving at human speed within that altered time frame, he moved at Barry's speed. That's like experiencing an attosecond within an actual attosecond as a normal second

Wouldn't Zoom himself *require* legitimate superspeed in order to match Barry's speed within his own time-bubble? This seems like a huge reach either way -- not really buying it, tbh. /shrug

Also, absorbing the speed of a mere 3 clones would already make Dr. Flobo =/> Zoom. So even if I 'only' had him absorb the speed of a few-dozen clones during my prep phase, Zoom is still going to be a statue at the onset, and your amalgam will be IMP-spammed before they can even react.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
This dies when Flobo casts a spell turning them into a pile of cocaine.

Creel sucks with his powers. Luckily I control it.

Originally posted by carver9
Creel sucks with his powers. Luckily I control it.

Originally posted by Galan007
Still confused.

Wouldn't Zoom himself *require* legitimate superspeed in order to match Barry's speed within his own time-bubble? This seems like a huge reach either way -- not really buying it, tbh. /shrug

Also, absorbing the speed of a mere 3 clones would already make Dr. Flobo =/> Zoom. So even if I 'only' had him absorb the speed of a few-dozen clones during my prep phase, Zoom is still going to be a statue at the onset, and your amalgam will be IMP-spammed before they can even react.

Do you understand that the Zoom-Barry combo can perceive and make actions in an attosecond of an attosecond?

Originally posted by Smurph
that will surely improve things 👆

Originally posted by h1a8
Do you understand that the Zoom-Barry combo can perceive and make actions in an attosecond of an attosecond?

Originally posted by carver9
Creel sucks with his powers. Luckily I control it.

Originally posted by Smurph
Ok back to the drawing board

What about:

Cyborg Superman
Shadow King
Rogue

"Cybrow"

Shadow King exists without a physical body, and he can also hop between hosts, forever. As well, he's shown that he can spread his control across a population like a virus. Cyborg Superman has hacked the source wall itself, and would best Doom's defences with a bit of time.

So between those two powersets, Cybrow hops and spreads between armors and clone bodies. Both give him the capacity to control legions. Now, Flobo has defenses to TP and techno attacks, but as soon as Cybrow makes contact, he also drains power + knowledge via Rogue.

And from there he can remain ethereal but use Flash's speed steal and have all the secrets of Doom's magic and armor. While he spreads across the Dr Flobo army and converts them to his side or steals their speed and power. He could also steal Lobo's powers in order to create duplicating Cyborg Kryptonians with Doom's magic and Wally's speed steal and Shadow King's immortality. The duplicates would just exponentially increase his ability to convert the Flobo army by force.

Originally posted by h1a8
Any amalgam that isn't as fast or faster than Flobo will be frozen for an extremely long time the moment the fight begins.

This means all the creative and fantastic strategies your amalgam might have become useless. And since the amalgam has no prep time, they must start the fight completely vulnerable to physical and or magical attacks with no active defenses.

People often fail to realize that having an exponential speed advantage is essentially the same as stopping time - there is practically no difference.