WWH - DOS Doomsday - Rebirth Superman

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yeah don't do this carver. Green Scar was special, but he was his own thing. Comics opperate on a sliding scale, they always have and always will. That's Iron Man has had like 30+ armors that were each leaps and bounds above the previous version in strength... and every single one of them is [b]almost as strong as Namor.

If they're allowing Hulk to be handled logically, be logical. [/B]

Yeah...again, just a couple of days ago (when we had the previous ruling):

Originally posted by carver9
And Hulk tanked a hundred million suns exploding worth of power. This was said by the narrator by the way. He also tanked a blast that destroyed a Celestial body. Orion doesn't have anything comparable to Hulk and yes, this was Savage Hulk, who on panel was said to be weaker than WWH.

Dude even created an entire thread with his thinking, lol:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=17721506

If a thread with WWH is created, there will be almost no posts with what we think of as WWH - just extrapolated scans from Indestructible, Immortal, Savage (strange how Marvel and people understand perfectly that there are delineations.....) and then, WBH.

But maybe one scan of WWH (where they say this version is more powerful) and then extrapolations.

Originally posted by carver9
So he gets his fts from WWH and before, but if Greenscar is mentioned in the title, he gets all of his fts from heart of monster and before?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah...again, just a couple of days ago (when we had the previous ruling):

Dude even created an entire thread with his thinking, lol:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=17721506

If a thread with WWH is created, there will be almost no posts with what we think of as WWH - just extrapolated scans from Indestructible, Immortal, Savage (strange how Marvel and people understand perfectly that there are delineations.....) and then, WBH.

But maybe one scan of WWH (where they say this version is more powerful) and then extrapolations.

🤦🏿🤦🏿🤦🏿... we are literally discussing the changes in this thread, and yet you're still clinging to conversations before this. Why are you like this? I get it, you're trying to convince Galan, but its painfully frustrating seeing you on every page going off topic.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah...again, just a couple of days ago (when we had the previous ruling):

Dude even created an entire thread with his thinking, lol:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=17721506

If a thread with WWH is created, there will be almost no posts with what we think of as WWH - just extrapolated scans from Indestructible, Immortal, Savage (strange how Marvel and people understand perfectly that there are delineations.....) and then, WBH.

But maybe one scan of WWH (where they say this version is more powerful) and then extrapolations.

In regards to newer versions of the Hulk though... Carvers on his own because I mentally segregate versions of characters via chronology to an even greater degree than is dictated by the rules. To me, no post WWH versions apply to WWH. But that's a hard line from a meta perspective that I don't expect others to necessarily embrace.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yup that's the sound of it.

👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾... im ok with that. One last question. What if the OP just say "Hulk" vs Wendigo. No incarnation given. Just the character name. How do you feel we should handle that when debating?

Im only asking because if we make a thread saying "Superman" vs Doomsday. Superman gets all of his New 52 and post Crisis fts. New 52 Superman had his own personality, but Rebirth Superman and New 52 Superman share fts. Superman also gets his post crisis fts as well. No underlining statements need to be mentioned for the character. He automatically gets everything.

Originally posted by carver9
👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾... im ok with that. One last question. What if the OP just say "Hulk" vs Wendigo. No incarnation given. Just the character name. How do you feel we should handle that when debating?

Hey man, we all know what you're doing lol. 'Just asking questions ' 😂

Originally posted by carver9
Im only asking because if we make a thread saying "Superman" vs Doomsday. Superman gets all of his New 52 and post Crisis fts. New 52 Superman had his own personality, but Rebirth Superman and New 52 Superman share fts. Superman also gets his post crisis fts as well. No underlining statements need to be mentioned for the character. He automatically gets everything.

WWH did kinda have that kind of thing going on(which is why I said earlier that he's special), but when they started busting out newer versions like the one that regrew a head, he got capped chronologically IMO.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yeah but Hulk has specific incarnations, that's just a facet of the character and how he's written. A truly merged, "best of everything" version of Hulk is something that's never actually appeared on panel. So for a thread to accommodate that, it would be the onus of the threadstarter to layout the theoretical amalgam.

WWH did kinda have that kind of thing going on(which is why I said earlier that he's special), but when they started busting out newer versions like the one that regrew a head, he got capped chronologically IMO.

👍🏾

Originally posted by darthgoober
... it would be the onus of the threadstarter to layout the theoretical amalgam.

Originally posted by h1a8
In regards to Hulk.
But what's the point of specifying a particular version if other versions can be used anyway? It defeats the purpose and goes against common sense and intent of the OP, doesn't it?

At least IMO. I'm not actually the authority on the matter, I'm just providing my perspective.

Originally posted by carver9
What do we do with the WWH showings after his battle against Sentry? He showed up in Indestructible Hulk and he appeared in Immortal Hulk and was referenced as being stronger than both. ODG statements make sense imo.

Originally posted by darthgoober
It seems like the implication is that post WWH arc will be referred to as Green Scar. That'll be the name for the overall character, while WWH is a denotation of where he was during a specific period of character development. Sounds pretty good to me overall.

That's my opinion, at least. /shrug

Originally posted by carver9
👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾... im ok with that. One last question. What if the OP just say "Hulk" vs Wendigo. No incarnation given. Just the character name. How do you feel we should handle that when debating?

But if you're confused, then just ask the thread starter. Simple.

Originally posted by h1a8
In regards to Hulk.
But what's the point of specifying a particular version if other versions can be used anyway? It defeats the purpose and goes against common sense and intent of the OP, doesn't it?

**None of this is an official "ruling", btw. I'm just legitimately trying to get some opinions before I make the edits. 👆

I agree with everything mentioned above. I even agree with DOS Doomsday getting all of his showings before facing Superman. Same character, so why not.

Originally posted by carver9
I even agree with DOS Doomsday getting all of his showings before facing Superman. Same character, so why not.

...But that's irrelevant to the Hulk ruling. Not to derail things (sorry carv), but I'd like to get that sorted first.

Originally posted by Galan007
If a specific iteration of Hulk was referenced after the arc itself, then it should still be [retroactively] applicable to the version in question. Again, we'd do that for any other character.

👆 Where forum lingo/importance is concerned...
"WWH": That's his base, and encompasses everything Hulk did up to the conclusion of his fight with Sentry. World-Breaker-Mode would not be accessible to this version.
"WBH": His base is essentially HotM-level. Simple.
"Green Scar": A broad term which basically covers that entire era of Hulk's history. He starts off at WWH-ish levels, but also has the potential to go World-Breaker during the battle(assuming he gets the right kind of mental 'nudge', obvs.)

That's my opinion, at least. /shrug

In this case we'd default to the most current versions of the characters, per forum rules.

But if you're confused, then just ask the thread starter. Simple.

Well if someone says "WWH", they're referring to a certain level that Hulk was operating at(ie. the "strongest and angriest evah!!", etc.) -- but that shouldn't invalidate every single feat that was preformed by one of his lesser versions outside that arc. As mentioned: logical and reasonable feat-sharing/power-scaling should be acceptable in certain cases, imo. For example, I would also feel comfortable assuming that H/P Doomsday could match any feat preformed by DoS Doomsday, even if the former never actually did so on panel. Why? Because they're the same character, except H/P DD is canonically > DoS DD. I know it's not always a 1:1 scale like that, but the same general principle should apply to Hulk as well, no?

**None of this is an official "ruling", btw. I'm just legitimately trying to get some opinions before I make the edits. 👆

Originally posted by Galan007
👆 Where forum lingo/importance is concerned...
"WWH": That's his base level, and encompasses everything Hulk did up to the conclusion of his fight with Sentry. 'World-Breaker-Mode' would not be accessible to this version.
"WBH": His base is essentially HotM-level. Simple.
"Green Scar": A broad term which basically covers that entire era of Hulk's history. He starts off at WWH-ish levels, but also has the potential to go 'World-Breaker' during the battle itself(assuming he gets the right kind of mental 'nudge', obvs.)

This is pretty much what we had before, where if a thread starter stated 'WWH' in a thread, we meant everything up to the conclusion, no WBH. So no showings of him cracking the Eastern Seaboard mode, for example (I know Carver is itching to use that, and innocently claim that it happened 'in the WWH story arc'. This is what we had, so am happy.

Well if someone says "WWH", they're referring to a certain level that Hulk was operating at(ie. the "strongest and angriest evah!!", etc.) -- so that shouldn't invalidate every single feat that was preformed by one of his lesser versions outside of that arc. As mentioned: logical and reasonable feat-sharing/power-scaling should be acceptable in certain cases, imo. For example, I would also feel comfortable assuming that H/P Doomsday could match any feat preformed by DoS Doomsday, even if the former never actually did so on panel. Why? Because they're the same character, except H/P DD is canonically > DoS DD. I know it's not always a 1:1 scale like that, but the same general principle should apply to Hulk as well, no?

This also sounds good to me, and links in to the previous ruling where more often than not WWH can perform what Savage Hulk could do etc.

The main thing was that I was saying if a thread says WWH, it doesn't turn into WBH. As Pr said when making the ruling:

Source: https://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=586313&pagenumber=8

That link also shows how Pr - like Galan - don't believe in having Eastern-Seabord-cracking Hulk as valid for WWH. Again, that's fine. There is a clear disparity in power levels between the two incarnations.

👆

Seemed like most were in agreement, so I added an addendum to the Ruling thread to reflect the changes. It can always be revised more if need be.

👆 its a good change. Am glad we could alll agree on it.

Yep. No limitations to a single story like someone was trying to do. Saving this thread.